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Apparently recently there has been a particular user going around and… - JJ2 List Servers News and Updates

About Apparently recently there has been a particular user going around and…

Previous Entry Jul. 24th, 2005 @ 05:08 pm Next Entry
Apparently recently there has been a particular user going around and constantly disrupting online JJ2 games. And apparently those being affected have been asking Nimrod to ban this user from the list servers. Nimrod has asked me to explain why it is we don't ban this individual through the list servers. Now don't get me wrong, we dislike people crashing servers, renaming, and generally making a mess of things just as much as you, but the reason we haven't attempted to ban this user (or similar users) should be clear.

First of all, you may be asking why we do not ban this user and get rid of the problem when we have the ability to do so. The answer to that is simply that we do not have the ability to ban a user from every online JJ2 game. Sure we could ban them from maybe one or two of the list servers, but right now we are unable to ban an individual from every running list server. Even if we could, there are still numerous GIP scripts and other users scattered around online that the banned individual would never be completely cut off from being able to find online JJ2 games. About the only way we could completely prevent one user from finding the list of online JJ2 games would be to completely break down the network so that nobody could find a list of online JJ2 games. That wouldn't be very practical.

In general, it is not the place of the list servers to interfere with individual JJ2 games. The list servers have no more control over JJ2 games than JJ2 games have over the list servers. The purpose of the list servers is simple: to provide a public list of current online JJ2 games so that other JJ2 clients may find and join those games. The list servers have nothing to do with what goes on in those JJ2 games, other than knowing how many players they contain. The hosts and clients of those JJ2 games are responsible for what happens inside of them. If a user is being disruptive in a JJ2 game, the host should consider banning that user from their server. Likewise, if a user is being disruptive to the list servers, we will consider banning that user from the list servers. But, in no way are the list servers responsible for banning users who are being disruptive in JJ2 games.

Now as I said, we dislike disruptive users in our JJ2 games just as much as you, so let me give you some advice on how to deal with users like this. Simply, the way to deal with a user like this is to ban them from your JJ2 game, assuming you are the host of course. To ban a user in-game, simply type (t): ban [usernum], where [usernum] is the number of the user you want to ban. To see what number relates to a particular user in your server, bring up the server list with the key F9. For someone like this, it might be difficult to ban them in-game however. You can still manually place a ban on a person's IP by using the banlist for JJ2. To do this, locate the file banlist.lst in your Jazz2 game directory, and open it with notepad. Simply put the IP of the user you wish to ban on a new line at the bottom of that file, then save it and restart JJ2. If you do not know the IP of the person you need to ban, ask your peers to see if they know, or you can try using Link's Apprehend program which will show IPs even if they cause your server to crash. If you have any other questions, feel free to post a comment here.
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From:tho_odin314
Date:July 25th, 2005 11:27 pm (UTC)

A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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I don't understand why List Servers are not given the power to ban. At least create a poll or something where the people can vote on whether or not a person stays or goes. I understand it might be, ehh, you know, but I believe that if enough people are pissed at another for doing malicious crap, they should be able to vote him off the island.
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From:jlindsey
Date:July 26th, 2005 02:09 am (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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One of my main points was that the list server simply can't remove someone from JJ2, no matter how many people may want to vote them off. Plus some sort of voting system for people to get banned just because others don't like them opens a lot of doors for abuse.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:July 26th, 2005 02:49 am (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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I didn't say that the public could start a poll. What could take place is that an admin, with co-operation with a few authority figues (FQuist comes to mind), create a poll just to see public opinion. If the public states that they want a certain member banned, then it's still up to the admins and the list server admin.
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From:atomicnebula
Date:August 1st, 2005 03:02 pm (UTC)

Sorry...

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The list server doesn't work quite how you think it does (I'd know, I'm programming the new version Nimrod is using). You can't just tell the list server that you don't want the user "Orbitz" to be able to access the server. You have to specify his IP address, and unfourtunately, it's quite easy to get that changed. So unless an admin has enough time to just sit around all day and play catchup to these guys, there's nothing we can do that will have any real lasting effect.
From:nimroddx
Date:July 26th, 2005 10:46 pm (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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I know Monolith says they can't be banned, and this is somewhat true. But we could maybe make it a hell of a lot harder for them.

Say if both Nimrod-Online and Madskills ran an IP filter/blocker, and had the same blacklist. That would stop them using the JJ2 client to join games. They would also be blocked from the j2o/digiex GIP as thats hosted on the same server as the Nimrod-Online List. Other Lists can then be removed from ServerNet as they wont be needed.

The really clever people could get around the list, but that would stop the less skilled current trouble makers, for example Orbitz which I mentioned on JCF.

Thats my thoughts on what we could do, if we actually did something.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:July 27th, 2005 11:59 pm (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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I believe that there should be an option to ban members completely from the lists, even if for only temporary. The only way Orbitz will learn is if he gets whacked over the head repeatedly with a banhammer.
From:jlindsey
Date:July 28th, 2005 12:09 am (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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That's why users should be banning him from their servers. That's where the banning really needs to take place.
From:tho_odin314
Date:August 3rd, 2005 09:55 pm (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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But shouldn't list servers ban the pest so that he can't get to the servers? The whole list server thing is for convience. Heck, we can all just join games by entering in IPs, but remembering IPs and entering them in is a pain in the butt. We have list servers so that someone can host and we don't have to go through getting the IPs and entering them. Orbitz has been enough of a pest that many people believe he should be banned from the list servers without a second thought. Some, in fact, believe he should be reported to his ISP. We don't need little 11 year old punks running around causing trouble.

And what about the newbies that don't know how to ban, much less know how to edit banlist.lst? Nobody, regardless of experience with JJ2, should have to put up with the constant barrage of attacks this punk.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 12th, 2005 08:39 am (UTC)

Re: A plea for understanding in an mechanized epoch

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Yes, I think we should report him to his ISP (rogers). They can find, from his IP address, his home address, telephone number and can easily fine him (which he deserves)...
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 12th, 2005 08:00 pm (UTC)
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The JJ2 community will die quite soon unless you ban him. He has lasered and keeps messing up stuff. My antivirus wont ever let me block that file. And GREAT JOB at not banning him. It really makes us feel BAD.
From:tho_odin314
Date:August 12th, 2005 11:06 pm (UTC)
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See? These are examples of the people. These two people (out of many others in the Jazz community) are really mad at this guy. I don't think ayone has to put up with it.

Nebula: I understand how these server lists work better than you may think (but still not enough to just sit down and do the thing myself). I understand we need his IP (which we have) and that it's easy to get a new one (which I doubt he'll be able to do, seeing as he's only 11 years old). Besides, I believe that by taking action by reporting this wise guy to Rogers (his ISP) that his parents will get a letter and possibly a fine (which should be enough for his parents to know that there are a lot of people really mad at what he's doing, and therefore to punish him severely).
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 13th, 2005 12:13 am (UTC)
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Im mad at him too.
He used to "trust" me.
...just give that guy a ban, he'll never listen.
he just crashed one of the 2v2 servers I played in.

- Vegito
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From:link077
Date:August 13th, 2005 11:06 pm (UTC)
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Allowing certain users to be banned from the list servers for their actions within games would completely change the roles of the list server administrators. Banning Orbitz or others would set a precedent and charge the administrators with policing the game community. While this could be a valid role, a decision to make this change has to be made by the community, and a clear policy must be outlined.

I'm personally in favour of allowing administrators to ban users from the list servers for their actions within games. This is a change in opinion for me. I believe that banning certain users could improve the quality of the game for many more users, which in my opinion is more important than continuing to allow a person access on principle when they are clearly causing damage. However, as I mentioned above, a clear and transparent policy must be created and adhered to, and multiple people (at least 3) should be involved in the banning decision process.

As Monolith and Nebula have both noted, it would be technically difficult to completely ban a person from the servers. But an IP ban is possible, and wildcards could be used to ban users with dynamic IP addresses. This would prevent direct access, and only through indirect means (such as a GIP script) would a user be able to access the list.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 14th, 2005 12:25 am (UTC)

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Hello. After reading this I believe action must be taken. I am fully behind Link and Nimrod because jazz2 is ought to be a fun game. Troublemakers should be removed from jj2 for sure. Somebody in jj2 already said "hosting isnt fun anymore these days" and I agree on that. So use the power listservers were ought to have to remove those silly wannabe-hackers.
-Umba
From:sonyk8d
Date:August 14th, 2005 12:27 am (UTC)
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I am completely for banning troublemakers like Orbitz/Adeel. The list servers were given the power to ban, if just a little. All action should be taken against those who ruin the enjoyment of the game, even if it means making a group of actual game administrators. More often than not, banning just isn't enough. Programs such as ASD and Mutator seem to have to ability to bypass bans, and that makes it necessary to take such force against them.

Sorry if that sounded a little jumbled. I just basically spilled my thoughts on this.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 14th, 2005 05:13 pm (UTC)

BAN HIM!

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There is no use in keeping a stupid idiot who is trying to damage the community authorised to access the list servers. The list servers are his leg up to help him. My Opinion- BAN HIM!
From:tho_odin314
Date:August 15th, 2005 05:03 am (UTC)

Mister Frump and the Iron Lung

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Link has made some very good points. While list servers should have the ability to ban, their must be a set of rules for the people deciding who to ban to adhere to.

Anyways, I am amazed by the amount of people from the JJ2 community came to this journal simply to complain about Adeel/Orbitz. While this amount is certainly nowhere near the scale of the entire community, I do believe that it shows that a lot of people (myself included) are tired of this guy running around and being a punk. I feel that it is the duty of the list servers to take action, before people start to get so angry that they hack Orbitz's own computer.
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